Commit to a lifetime of wellness for yourself. That will mean different things at different stages in your life, but having all nine centers guiding you, being curious, and taking wise action can accelerate the path along your journey, towards the place of effective service to others. Many of the people who have learned to activate all nine centers chose to shift careers and positions to become more effective and more in alignment with their own purpose. Support your Superpower by being you!
The global health and wellness market is worth more than 1.5 trillion dollars. So many people are looking to improve their physical, mental, and emotional wellness. At the same time, so many people are needed to help provide these services. What does it take to create a highly successful career in the health and wellness industry?
In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Create A Highly Successful Career In The Health and Wellness Industry” we are talking to health and wellness professionals who can share insights and stories from their experiences.
In this particular interview, we had the distinct pleasure of interviewing Martin Fisher.
Susan and Martin Fisher are pioneers in the study and research of the 9 Natural Numbers. With over thirty years of combined research and experience with Body of 9, their work has led to many new discoveries and a deeper understanding of the importance, power, and impact of knowing your Natural Number and learning to consciously use this aspect of your body. Since 2012, Susan and Martin Fisher have been working together to identify over 7500 people from around the world and to build and share the understanding of how the Body of 9 shows up in so many aspects of human experience.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dive in, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your ‘backstory’ and how you grew up?
I moved to the US from England in 1981, working in Silicon Valley at a few companies you’ve probably heard of, and quite a few you haven’t. I learned binary in the late 1960s from my Dad who was one of the first ‘programmers’, and I have a degree in Computation from the University of Manchester. I have been heard to half-joke that I worked with computers, so I could turn them off if I needed to. I’ve had many practitioners, palm readers, and so on tell me that I am a healer’s teacher, so I started to embrace that over my technological background. When in 2012, Susan and I went to Burning Man and I connected with both my spiritual sides and also connected into working in partnership with my wife.
Was there a particular person or event that inspired you to live a wellness-focused lifestyle? Can you tell us about your main motivation to go all in?
It was Burning Man 2012 that inspired me to move from a dollar-focused lifestyle to a wellness-focused lifestyle and to crave the human interactions I was missing. It was my first Burning Man and it offered me the opportunity to be whomever I wanted to be, on the playa at least. Turns out the person I wanted to be was me! Through the transaction-less environment, and a host of other learnings, my ability to heal others by just being myself was a revelation.
Most people with a wellbeing centered lifestyle have a “go-to” activity, exercise, beverage, or food that is part of their routine. What is yours and can you tell us how it helps you?
My go-to activity is to constantly exercise the nine regions of my body that contain the Natural Number centers. This allows me to more effectively communicate and honor the people I meet. Since the majority of our communication is body-based, with gestures and micro-movements communicating over 50% of our message, being able to connect to another person in their ‘space,’ will dramatically improve their experience of me, and helps create an instant team to enjoy being together and be more effective in whatever we plan on doing, even if it is just ‘hanging out’.
To live a wellness-focused life is one thing, but how did it become your career? How did it all start?
My career followed the then traditional software developer arc. The ladder is something like software developer, senior software developer, project lead, manager, Director, and VP. As my responsibilities and organizational size grew, I received some training in people skills, charm school if you will, but the very little emphasis was placed on the nurturing aspect of working in teams. Optimizing team output for the good of the company was the stated goal, but it wasn’t realized at the time (the 1990s or so) that looking after the health of the members of the team, and by extension, the team itself could have a significant impact on both the happiness and the output of the team.
Eventually, HR departments started to implement ‘wellness’ programs, but mainly as a way to cut down on healthcare costs, rather than being a holistic goal to improve employees’ and hence organizational wellness.
At that point, disillusioned with corporate life, I left and spent five years as a professional pilot.
In 2005 when I returned to manage a team at a non-profit healthcare organization, I realized that wellness is not just about physical or mental health. Holistic health is, of course, about the whole. But I didn’t know how to move from a software managerial role to becoming focused on wellness.
Around this time, I was lucky enough to get back in touch with the person who became my wife and who connected me to what I believe is one of the core tenets of wellness. That, surprising though it may be too many, there are actually 9 physiologically different kinds of human beings, what we, the Body of 9 organization, now call the nine Natural Numbers. These are nine physio-spiritual ways people experience the world. Of course, our life experiences are each uniquely different being influenced by the constant ‘nurturing’ we receive, but the unique ways each of the nine Natural Numbers experience the world are remarkably consistent, by Natural Number.
We went to Burning Man in 2012 for the first time, and it was there that I realized my life’s calling is to work with my wife to help people feel seen, and honored for who they are at their deepest nature. Since then we have been researching this discovery and using it to promote the understanding of the wholeness but the difference of each Natural Number and how the integration and nurturing of our mind, our spirit, and our bodies lead to a life of wellness.
Can you share a story about the biggest challenges you faced when you were first starting? How did you resolve that? What are the main lessons or takeaways from that story?
There are a number of challenges when bringing new information into any domain, especially one as traditional as the wellness market. We get questions like: How do you know? What research have you done? Why hasn’t anyone else seen this seemingly obvious aspect of humanity (in other words, why you?) We get asked to resolve our work within the western worlds’ separation of physical and non-physical (mind, body, and spirit). Fortunately, there is a fairly well-accepted model of nine different archetypes, known as the Enneagram. The couple that originally noticed the physical component of the Enneagram, the work we have built on when developing Body of 9 and the Natural numbers, were able to take the first small steps to build techniques to identify the nine body regions. In the last nine years, we have refined those techniques and worked with over 8000 people as our research base.
Building credibility has been our focus for the last few years, and now, with a large referral base and glowing testimonials from individuals and businesses, we are finding it easier to start conversations with people about how our work will contribute to the future of wellness.
Can you share with us how the work you are doing is helping to make a bigger impact in the world? Can you share a story that illustrates that?
We have worked with individuals, families, and organizations all over the world. When our research showed that the Natural Numbers don’t repeat in families, and specifically and importantly that our parents don’t have the same Natural Number as we do, it became clear that a major source of conflict in relationships and within families is the lack of understanding the fundamental differences between couples and family members. Extending that to organizations, we realized that treating employees as the same as each other is a fundamentally flawed strategy. Knowing the needs and strengths of each Natural Number, in a relationship, whether familial or professional, allows us to honor and support each individual in ways previously impossible before this work was known.
It is certain that any person with any Natural number can perform any role, however, how they will approach that role and what they will focus on within that role will be predictably different.
Organizations, including sports teams, work better and families manage stress better, and parents parent better when everyone involved knows their Natural number.
We worked with a family where one child was diagnosed on the autistic scale, and while we’d never contradict a professional diagnosis, the child had Natural Number 2, which thrives on connection to others, and neither of his parents was Natural Numbers that are particularly interested in a connection. Eye contact wasn’t important to them, but it was vital to the child. By his late teens, the child had given up on being able to connect to his parents, his primary relationships. He also gave up on any other relationships and withdrew into himself completely. His parents, paying attention, noticed a problem and took him to get help, where he was promptly diagnosed as being on the spectrum. After we’d identified his Natural Number, and those of his family, he finally got the support that he needed, and the family is now much closer and supportive of his needs for connection and eye contact.
We worked with an ice hockey team and once the entire squad had their Natural Numbers identified, the players moved their positions around on the ice, to better support their innate strengths. Everyone enjoyed playing more and they were more successful as a team.
During COVID-19, we’ve worked with a number of organizations to help team members and team leaders to be able to support each other over Zoom while out of the office. For some Natural Numbers, working from home has made them much more productive. For others, mostly Natural numbers that need relationships to function well, we recommend more one-on-one Zoom calls and the creation of ‘virtual watercoolers’ where they can hang out and be in connection with others, as closely as possible without sharing an office.
What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now? How do you think that might help people?
We are developing a partner program for Holistic Practitioners and Coaches to help them integrate this system into the work that they do by helping them accelerate and deepen the relationship-building process with their clients, and provide powerful, sustainable healing. We have built a body of training materials to help people practice the physical activation of their Natural Numbers. We’ll be announcing a number of partnership opportunities shortly to invite wellness professionals to integrate this knowledge into their practices.
You are a successful leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?
My Natural number is 5, and this means I have the ability to read the emotions and needs of the people around me; super empathy if you will. I also know how to provide environments for the people in my team to succeed. These traits have helped me to become the leader I am.
Together with an intuitive, big picture, top-down, framework creation ability that naturally processes problems, I have been able to distill and solve problems throughout my career.
I also have a very sensitive BS detector which has made my hiring percentage better than many and helps me weed through the inconsistent information overload we face today, to find the relevant and important truths.
OK, thank you for all of that. Let’s now shift to the main focus of our interview. Let’s begin with a basic definition of terms so that all of us are on the same page. Wellness is an incredibly broad topic. How would you define the term “Wellness”? Can you explain what you mean?
To me, wellness isn’t a prescriptive command, it’s not just about ‘doing x and y’, it’s an attitude, a part of life’s journey. Wellness is the concept of taking care of yourself, in all aspects of life. It covers being aware of your body, and respecting it, eating when hungry, sleeping when tired, and so on. But it also means feeding your mind, soul, and spirit; whether one believes in a God or just the blessing of Nature, we are more than just body-based beings.
Being curious and willing to learn from others, to ‘do your work’ keep working on your own abilities to become the best you that you can be. Keeping a beginner’s mind and staying open to new possibilities creates space for growing. And taking wise action — manifestation doesn’t happen without noticing what needs to be called in and taking action on it.
Wellness doesn’t mean not having a drink, or not having that extra slice of pizza, but it does mean paying attention to your body. More critically though, it means caring for your mental and spiritual growth as well.
As an expert, this might be intuitive to you, but it will be instructive to expressly articulate this. Can you please share a few reasons with our readers about why focusing on our wellness should be a priority in our lives?
It is a meme, that we shouldn’t live to work, but should work to live. We only have this life, and not looking after ourselves, and our loved ones could lead to regret as we age. We can’t expect life to always be easy, nor always fun, but if we really dedicate time and effort to ourselves, we can enjoy the fun times more and deal with the other times more effectively and with less stress, and hopefully faster. At least we can address and avoid self-imposed suffering.
Since the COVID-19 pandemic, there has been an increasingly growing understanding of the necessity for companies to be mindful of the wellness of their employees. For the sake of inspiring others, can you share steps or initiatives that companies have taken to help improve or optimize their employees’ mental and physical wellness?
Promoting awareness of employees Natural numbers has a direct impact on the happiness and satisfaction of employees, as well as smoothing the relationships within teams. It is especially useful in the reporting hierarchy as leaders can know the best touchpoints to mentor employees. For example one of our clients had a Natural number 1 team member, and part of their gift is the ability to produce stunning visuals. At the same time, there is a tendency for natural number 1s to strive for perfection. Knowing this the team was able to plan and support the Natural Number 1 member accordingly, reassuring the team member that their work was, in fact, amazing and didn’t need to be as perfect as they were driven to create.
Knowing the Natural Numbers of teams has had immediate benefits for the organizations with whom we have worked. Team members accept each other’s gifts more readily and know which team members can help with tasks. An individual doesn’t have to be the best at more than being themselves.
Ok super. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need To Create A Highly Successful Career In The Health and Wellness Industry”? If you can, please share a story or an example for each.
1. The first thing you need to create a highly successful career in the Health and Wellness Industry is probably the hardest. It is to allow yourself to be open to the new reality that there are nine different basic physio-spiritual types of people, nine Natural Numbers. Unless you can accept this, your message will likely only resonate with people who share the same Natural Number as you. That’s only 11 percent of the world. Your words and actions won’t land with the other 89%. The proof? Examine the self-help book sales reports. In general, even the best selling books only reach around 11% of the market. That’s not because the information they contain isn’t right, because it is, but it’s only resonant with 1/ninth of the readership. The other 8 Natural numbers don’t care about what you care about, don’t relate to others the way you do. This means that your perspective may fall on deaf ears.
Knowing that different people resonate with different ideas allows wisdom to be crafted such that it will resonate with each Natural Number, whether appealing to those more body-focused, or relationship-focused, or energy-focused, for example.
2. The second thing is to learn to activate the other eight regions in your body. Each of us has all nine regions, and once you can activate the other eight in your body, you’ll be able to more readily connect to others, you’ll appreciate their gifts, and most importantly, you’ll understand how uniquely wonderful your gifts are. Our research shows that people who have learned to activate all nine regions in their body become more aligned with themselves and their purpose. They become calmer, more assured and less afraid, less influenced by all the negativity that bombards us daily, and more open and perceptive.
A simple example is to activate Natural Number 1 when asking for help. If you are on the phone, negotiating for a late credit card payment to be forgiven, for example, try this activation:
Focus on the top of the neck, under the chin, stretching the back of the neck upward to create space between the neck vertebrae. Very slightly raise the chin without compressing the back of the neck, creating tension in the muscle at the base of the tongue, and the other muscles under the chin. Continue to bring your attention to the area under the chin; the muscles there will tighten and the chin will move very slightly forward as Natural Number 1 activates. Allow the eyes to soften.
And you will be amazed at how showing that vulnerability, even over the phone, will put people in a place where they are more likely to help you if they can.
3. Thirdly, commit to a lifetime of wellness for yourself. That will mean different things at different stages in your life, but having all nine centers guiding you, being curious, and taking wise action can accelerate the path along your journey, towards the place of effective service to others. Many of the people who have learned to activate all nine centers chose to shift careers and positions to become more effective and more in alignment with their own purpose. Support your Superpower by being you!
Listen to your body, respect its powers, but also its messages. For example, some Natural Numbers enjoy an adrenaline rush, but as we mature, egos can write checks our bodies can’t cash. Be curious about your place in the universe, know that we are all spiritual beings, even if you aren’t ready to hear that currently.
4. The fourth thing is to focus on your passion. None of us can be all things to all people. Any Natural Number can do anything, but how we do it is very much related to our Natural Number. When you have an activated Natural Number, you can check your beliefs, examine the nurturing influences in your life, both good and bad, and choose who and how you want to be. Many of our beliefs are limiting, they hold us back, but they are often the ones given to us by others. You are a whole, amazing individual, capable of using your Superpower/Natural Number gifts for the good of all. Your passion and purpose spring from your being — pursue this!
We have many examples of people who, on discovering their Natural Number, realized that they weren’t following their passion, or were stuck in a job or relationship that didn’t serve them, so within days had moved on to find a better job, or a more honoring supportive relationship.
5. Finally, don’t disbelieve. We are magical beings, and you’ll be amazed if you don’t disbelieve. I will guarantee that if you believe you can’t do something, you won’t be able to do it. Science is a powerful tool for understanding our reality. Still, it is becoming a more accepted idea that we do influence our futures by our thoughts and beliefs. The world isn’t split between the physical and the non-physical, by integrating the magical into our daily routines, and not disbelieving, you’ll be amazed at the impact you can bring.
There are many examples of things that shouldn’t be possible, that science can’t prove, such as Reiki, psychic surgery, talking to spirits, and so on. Those of us that have experienced such not-possible situations know the truth. There are peer-reviewed papers now that show the belief of research in an outcome, even in double-blind studies can affect the result.
I’ve learned to trust my intuition, and nurturing is part of my wellness regime. Getting ready for one trip to Burning Man, a transformational festival in the Mojave Desert, I picked up a spare bicycle wheel. We didn’t need it, we had 2 perfectly good bikes, with spare tires and everything else we needed. I looked at my wife, who shrugged (she’s used to my intuition) and we put it into the RV. Not 15 minutes after we arrived at our camp, there was a knock on the RV door, it was a neighbor ‘do you happen to have a spare wheel?’…
You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would promote the most wellness to the greatest amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
Promoting widespread acceptance of this re-discovered knowledge, with a drive to have each person’s Natural Number known as much a part of the inherent truth of their reality as for example their eye color, will lead to widespread improvements in relationships at all levels. Learning to activate all nine regions in our bodies leads to positive life-changing growth, happiness, and a sense of personal freedom.
We are blessed that some very prominent names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them.
I would love to sit down with Tony Robbins. It is likely that his Natural Number is 3. He has a focused eye, a full-on joyful smile, and has used his innate gifts to motivate by inspiring thousands of people — all characteristics of Natural Number 3. His journey involved him doing his work and tapping into his core strength. He is one of the best examples of how one can change the world from our core strengths, and it would be amazing to discuss this with him. It will also help him understand why he doesn’t receive the eye contact he’d like, it’s probably not why he thinks, and why it’s challenging for his clients to self-sustain the vision and energy they feel when he is around.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
Our website is bodyof9.com, we have a TV channel on special.tv/bodyof9 and Facebook, Instagram, and Tiktok accounts. We have two books published on Amazon, written by my wife, Susan Bennet Fisher, the second one co-authored by me.
This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for the time you spent with this. We wish you continued success and good health!